Quote of the day

"Is [Obama] 'elitist,' too condescending and glib and remote and full of himself? I don't find him so—but then again, I myself am an elitist who can seem condescending and glib and remote and full of himself, so who am I to judge?" --Kurt Andersen, in a piece for New York Magazine brilliantly titled "I'm Not Totally Sure We Can."

(I also like Andersen's take on what each candidate must to do pass the, er, commander-in-chief test, if you will: "I'm far more convinced that President Obama would summon up the requisite steel and shrewdness than I am that President McCain would become sufficiently nuanced and diplomatic." Heh.)

Comments

[CORNHUSKERS 94 95 97]

Such a great article i wish i had read before commenting the way i did in the other thread.

Obama not getting elected for any other reason than Mccain is just better will not be meet well by his backers nor the black community.

Im really going to ponder this possibility this weekend and try to figure out how i would make sense of that reality.

[thebeef]

"I think an Obama loss in November would be particularly disheartening for the country. It would amount to a national statement concerning our racial divide: Nah, we can’t."

What a load of horse shit. I enjoyed most of the article, but that really stuck in my craw.

There's plenty of reasons not to vote for Obama. In fact, the article makes that much clear. I particularly liked the part where the author wrote that the issues of health care and the Supreme Court make the choice between Democrat and Republican easy. He couldn't be more right. You'd be nuts to vote Democrat!

But that doesn't have anything to do with race. And neither would an Obama loss.

[Kurt Andersen]

Just as an Obama victory would be a powerful statement about racial progress in the U.S., a loss by Obama would inevitably be *understood* to be the opposite. Furthermore, while individuals can have all kinds of legitimate reasons for voting against him, and most people who will vote for McCain are not racist, if Obama were white his chances of winning in November, I think, would be overwhelming; in fact, Obama's chances of winning look to be 50-50; isn't that something like a rough measure of aggregate American racism?

[thebeef]

50% is a rough measure of aggregate American racism?

I don't know whether that's true or not, but it brings to mind the joke: "75% of all statistics are just made up." I mean, what does the 50% even refer to? 50% are racist?! I find that very hard to believe.

But, I admit, I overstated my position. Sure, an Obama loss would have SOMETHING to do with race. But to what extent I can't say. I certainly have no reason to believe, at this point, that an Obama loss would say anything significant about race in America. But then again, maybe it will, depending on how the vote turns out. We just don't know.

Either way, saying that an Obama loss would amount to a national statement on race seems to suggest that if I vote against Obama, I am somehow falling on the wrong side of history, as though I were voting against racial progress and equality. And I believe that those kind of statements poison the atmosphere of the election, because they seem to pressure people to second guess their votes based on race, as opposed to ideas. In other words, people may very well vote for Obama because they fear that not doing so will be seen as racist.

[Mad Max, Esquire]

Whether or not Obama's loss would really be due to race (which I doubt), the problem is every future black candidate will be tagged as "the next Obama." If Obama loses, I doubt you will see another black candidate being nominated for many, many years.

[Mad Max, Esquire]

Regarding McCain's experience, just because someone has been around a while doesn't necessarily mean he (or she) has learned from experience. McCain got caught up in the Keating Five, where he was using his position in the Senate to protect a crook. Now, he appears to be doing the same thing for the home mortgage industry. McCain simply doesn't learn from his mistakes. Is someone really experienced when they refuse to learn from their experiences??

[thebeef]

Mad Max,

It's a bit of a stretch to argue that John "McCain-Feingold" didn't learn from the Keating Five.

[CORNHUSKERS 94 95 97]

Beef

My point is that if Obama losese in November then black people will blame Hillary and will do everything possible to make her lose in 2012.

She cannot win the white house without the black vote so in all honesty these two people need each other to make history.

[CORNHUSKERS 94 95 97]

Beef

My point is that if Obama loses in November the black voters, his supporters, will blame Hillary and they will stage there own non vote for her.

She cannot win the white house without the black vote and just as Obama has to appease her supporters Bill and Hillary will have to do the same appeasement the other way.

-jesse jackson comment
-fairy tale comment
-hard working white people comment

This is far from one sided.

[Mad Max, Esquire]

John McCain doesn't learn from his mistakes. The guy crashed five planes while in the Navy. If it hadn't been for his father being an Admiral, he would have been grounded long before he went down over north Vietnam.

[Mad Max, Esquire]

Should Obama lose in 2008, Hillary will not be the nominee in 2012. Not because blacks won't vote for her but because in politics there are diminishing returns if you lose. Hillary will be old news by 2012. She will be like Dan Quayle in 2000. Nobody will care anymore. The only exception to this was Al Gore in 2000 and that was because Bill Clinton really revitilized Gore's political career by picking him as VP in 92. If Clinton hadn't have done that, Gore would have been a nobody in 2000.

[PenguinSix]

I'll happily vote for a candidate who is smarter than me, but I will never support one who thinks he is.

Obama is the latter.

[Alasdair]

Mad Max and thebeef - check your facts ... in the Keating 5, Cranston, DeConcini, and Reigle - Democrats all - were found to have substantially interefered with the regulators to prevent them doing their job, leading to the Keating problems ... McCain (R) and Glenn (D) weren't ...

As I recall, Alan Cranston was deemed to have been the worst of the 3 ... didn't he get reincarnated in the Senate as Barbara Boxer ? (grin)

[copndor]

After reading your comment, it dawned on me that you won't be voting for me.

[Alasdair]

copndor - give me a good reason to do so, and I would vote for you !

[John McCain]

Please attack my military record. Please.

[Sandy Underpants]

PenguinSix, with that standard your vote will be for someone stupid every election. Has the standard for voting against a Republican really dropped that low? Thank goodness you don't apply that same logic to your attorney, airplane pilot, CEO of companies you buy products from, or else you would be living an even more pathetic life.