Pour some sugar on 12-0 Hawaii

Hawaii is going to the BCS!

Specifically, they're going to the Sugar Bowl, where they'll play either LSU or Georgia. They got there by wrapping up a perfect 12-0 season with a 35-28 win over Washington, scoring 28 unanswered points to rally from a 28-7 deficit.

Now here's a question for you. If a two-loss team wins the BCS title game, and undefeated Hawaii beats the nation's #3 or #4 team in the Sugar Bowl, do the Warriors get a share of the national championship, via the AP? And if not, why the hell not? ... Anyway, more after the jump.

(In an earlier incarnation of this post, I mentioned the possibility of Hawaii playing a non-SEC team in the Sugar Bowl if #1 Ohio State plays #2 LSU for the title, and the Rose Bowl snatches up Georgia to replace tOSU, thus leaving the Sugar Bowl with no SEC options to replace LSU. But I forgot about Rule 3C of the Team-Selection Procedures, which prevents the Rose Bowl from doing that without the Sugar Bowl's consent. So nevermind. It'll be either Hawaii vs. LSU, if the Tigers don't reach #2 in the BCS standings, or Hawaii vs. Georgia, if they do.)

For Washington, tonight's game was another distressing second-half (well, and late first-half) collapse. For Hawaii, it was yet another example of "winning ugly" over an inferior opponent, something they've done repeatedly this season -- which is part of the reason why they won't get any serious consideration for the BCS title game despite the major-conference carnage. (I honestly think that a team like 2005 Utah or 2007 Boise State would at least have been seriously considered by the pollsters for the #1 or #2 spot in this bizarre situation. But not Hawaii, not with the schedule they've played and the way they've played it.)

I should note that, technically, Hawaii hasn't clinched a BCS invitation yet; they have to finish in the Top 12 when the final BCS standings are announced tomorrow to earn an automatic bid. They were #12 last week, which makes their position somewhat precarious -- but with #11 Boston College losing today, they'll still be in the Top 12 even if #13 Arizona State leapfrogs them, unless they're also leapfrogged by an idle team like #15 Illinois or #16 Clemson. That seems unlikely, especially since I'm guessing that a few pollsters actually will vote Hawaii #1 or #2 in light of the bizarre BCS situation, which will boost their poll numbers.

Regardless, congrats to the Warriors on a fantastic season!

I have to ask, though: does anyone think they have a chance against LSU or Georgia? Frankly, I don't -- they're no Boise State '07, IMHO -- but I'll certainly be rooting for them anyway.

And now I'm going to bed.

Comments

[C. Bassett]

I think Hawaii has a decent chance. It depends on which Hawaii shows up to play. The one that we've seen often this season that struggled against teams like Louisiana Tech, or the one that handled a capable Boise State team pretty easily.

I think the team that played Boise State could at least make a game with either LSU or Georgia interesting. Anything less than that and no, they won't have much of a shot.

For as much as Hawaii seemed to struggle tonight against Washington, Brennan and the Hawaii receivers stepped up and delivered the yards and points when they were most needed. They've done that in every game this season. That's what gives me hope for their performance in the Sugar Bowl. When they've needed something- points, yards, or a 12th win- they went out and got it.

Yes, whichever defense they face will be the most brutal they've seen this or last season, but I'm very excited that we can finally see the Hawaii offense put to a real test.

Too bad for Brennan that this huge opportunity comes after the Heisman's already sitting in Tim Tebow's basement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRni1eonGTw

That's a video of Hawaii's fight song, Co-Ed. Lyrics are included!

[I R A Darth Aggie]

do the Warriors get a share of the national championship, via the AP? And if not, why the hell not?

No.

As for why the hell not, take a good hard look at their schedule.

They've played, count 'em, 1 ranked (at the time) team, Boise State. They really need to schedule a tad more challenging out-of-conference schedule than N. Colorado (1-11), Charleston Southern (5-6), UNLV (2-10) and Washington (4-9).

Hawaii has played, count 'em, 2 teams with winning records (Boise State at 10-2 and Fresno St at 8-4). If you're feeling generous, you can include a 6-6 Nevada to make it 3 teams with non-losing records.

Sorry, playing a bunch of not very good teams (combined record of 53-92) is not impressive. At. All.

[Marty West]

Darth -

Hawaii absolutely deserves their share. They BLEW teams out this year and they HAVE NOT LOST. They are the Rodney Dangerfield of college football...they get no respect.

Don't forget Bess is a junior and Graunke is a sophomore. They will be pretty nasty next year too.

[Marty West]

....oh and they also AVERAGE 46 points a game.

[Jay Johnson]

Tellshow's numbers have Virginia Tech in 2d ahead of LSU. Crazy.

[Condor]

Pearl Harbor: We will not forget.

[Brendan Loy]

Darth, I'm not saying that Hawaii deserves a share of the national title now. I'm sharing they deserve it if they legitimate their undefeated record (which I admit was against inferior competition, though that's not their fault, but still) by beating LSU or Georgia. At that point, don't you have to look at them and say, hey, they've proven themselves now, they deserve credit for their undefeated record now, and since nobody else in the country has less than 2 losses...

The point of the "weak schedule" argument isn't simply to punish a team for playing a weak schedule (which would be inappropriate anyway, since as I noted, Hawaii's weak schedule is not its fault). Rather, the point of the argument is that, when a team has gone undefeated against a weak schedule, there is serious doubt about whether they are legitimately good, or whether they are "only undefeated because they haven't played anybody." When they play somebody really good like LSU or Georgia, and beat them, that presumption of fraudulentness goes away.

[uscroger]

sounds like Brendan is trying to create buzz about Hawaii getting into the BCS; of course the schedule matters. I personally would not want to go to a BCS to watch two unmatched teams. The argument of going undefeated in the season does not mean you're the best team in the nation and yet another reason why the playoffs would eliminate some of this controversy. I don't think Hawaii could hang out with the big power houses such as LSU

[Brendan Loy]

Roger, there's no need to speculate on what it "sounds like" I'm saying. I'm saying exactly what I said. What I said is that Hawaii, if they beat LSU or Georgia, deserves a share of the national title. You said "I don't think Hawaii could hang out with the big power houses such as LSU." Neither do I. But I bet you, like me, didn't think PItt could hang with WVU, or that Stanford could hang with USC, or that Appy State could hang with Michigan, etc. etc. So frankly, I'm not interested in our subjective opinions about who probably would win. I'm talking about a hypothetical. If Hawaii wins the Sugar Bowl, then they deserve the AP title.

[Marty West]

Who says Hawaii can't hang with the "powerhouse" teams? I think that argument is bullshit and the only way to determine if it's true or not is to let them play! I really think Hawaii can hang with the majority of the teams out there now.

[Brendan Loy]

Stewart Mandel:

The words "Such-and-such is a better team than such-and-such" have never been less relevant than they are right now. Why? Because Michigan is a better team than Appalachian State. USC is a better team than Stanford. And West Virginia is a better team than Pittsburgh.

But that's not what the scores said on the days those teams played. And scores are the only true measure we have by which to judge teams.

It's pretty simple. Of all the teams clamoring for a spot opposite Ohio State today, none has a better set of scores this season than LSU. The voters have a choice: They can trust the scores and pick the Tigers, or they can trust their instincts and pick someone else.

Our instincts have been wrong pretty much every week this season. This hardly seems like the right time to start trusting them.

My point exactly.

[Andrew]

Washington totally coug'd it last night. Maybe David and Matt would like to trade defensive coordinators?

I am no Stoops fan, but if I was forced to choose, I would put OU in the title game over LSU.

[uscroger]

Brendan:
I get your point. However, Stanford winning agains SC does not mean STanford is better than SC and the same can be said about other teams--except Notra Dame of course. The point is that SC lost earlier in the game and then to a tough opponent at the time. You have to look at progress and in the case of SC it has demonstrated that it merits to be ranked among the best. Hawaii might be able to defeat LSU but I will not place my bets on that spread margin, if you know what I mean.

[I R A Darth Aggie]

Hawaii's weak schedule is not its fault

Oh, I disagree.

Sure, they have no control over the overall suckiness of the WAC teams. But I'm pretty sure they voluntarily scheduled N. Colorado, Charleston Southern, UNLV. UDub should have been a decent game, but they had a bad season (or coach, or both). I'll classify that as nice try, hopefully it'll work out better in the future. Kinda like scheduling Notre D'OH, you think it's a lock, but then they lay an egg and turn in a 3-9 season...

Now, give that schedule to LSU, OSU, Florida, Mizzou, Kansas. Anyone want to tell me they don't go 12-0, and average 45+ points per game?

Ok, maybe Ohio State doesn't...but Tebow would have scored about a brazillion TDs against that schedule, and racked up about 5,000 yards on the ground.

[Brendan Loy]

Aggie, the reason I say the weak schedule isn't Hawaii's fault is because Hawaii tried to schedule good teams instead of Northern Colorado and Charleston Southern. No one would play them. Michigan State backed out of a game they contracted for 4 years ago, so Hawaii tried at the last minute to replace them with a decent opponent. They offered teams $500,000 (the maximum allowable) to come to Hawaii for a 13th game. They got no takers. They were also willing to open the season at a powerhouse school. They were in negotiations with USC, I think Michigan, and others. Again, no takers. Nobody wanted to risk playing a Hawaii team with no national cred (so a win gets you nothing) that was going to be very talented (so a loss was a distinct possibility). So the Warriors were forced to schedule a pair of crappy opponents (who, by the way, they beat 63-6 and 66-10... not sure how you can fault them for that).

I don't deny that the Warriors' schedule was pathetic in comparison to the other contenders, or that many of said contenders would probably go 12-0 against it. I do, however, strenuously deny that it's Hawaii's fault. When Ohio State schedules teams like Youngstown State, it's their choice to do so. They can play whoever they want, but they choose to schedule cupcakes. Same goes for Florida, which last year chose to schedule one of the worst teams in Division I-AA, Western Carolina, for a mid-November game, yet still played for the national title. Hawaii doesn't have the same leverage as schools like tOSU and Florida. It's a travesty that the powerhouse teams can refuse to play them, then turn around and argue against their inclusion in the big bowl games because "they play a weak schedule." The whole thing is a racket. The big boys conspire to keep the little guys small. And attitudes like yours enable it.

Your instinct tells you Hawaii is only undefeated because of its weak schedule. My instinct agrees. But who the hell cares what our instincts say? Who the hell knows, especially in a season like this one? Our instincts are opinions, not facts. Statements about other teams going 12-0 against Hawaii's schedule are hypotheticals, not facts. Here's a fact: Hawaii is the only team in the country that hasn't lost a game this year. It would be different if we were comparing them to USC and Texas in 2005-06, or to USC, Oklahoma and Auburn in 2004-05. But we're not. We're comparing them to a bunch of chokers and blunderers who have squandered their opportunities and lost games they shouldn't have. In a season chock full of favored teams losing to inferior opponents, Hawaii has won every single game it's played. That counts for something.

IF THEY BEAT GEORGIA, which is an enormous if, then they will have seized the only opportunity to prove themselves that the sport's monopolistic powers-that-be have reluctantly deigned to give them, and they should be rewarded for it. In that event, they would have validated their undefeated record and should share the national championship with whoever wins the fraudulent "championship game." Period.

[JT]

Brendan, I hate Georgia but I'd be willing to bet $50 that UGA will win that game.

By the way, check out this great quote from June Jones.

"Three of my best players I got out of jail," Jones said. "We have had to do it differently."

[David K.]

Your instinct tells you Hawaii is only undefeated because of its weak schedule. My instinct agrees. But who the hell cares what our instincts say?

Not to mention that this year proved how terribly wrong everyones instincts can be :)

[Brendan Loy]

Exactly, David.

JT, I wouldn't take that bet. As I keep saying, I think Georgia will win, too. Probably by a big margin. I don't think Hawaii is that good. I certainly don't think they're as good as Boise State 2006-07 or Utah 2004-05. I'm NOT predicting a Hawaii victory, and for the love of God, if the Warriors do indeed lose, and somebody comes back and makes an "I told you so" comment, I might shoot that person in the face. My comments are NOT predicated on the belief that Hawaii will be able to beat, or even hang with, Georgia. My comments are merely predicated on the belief that if, hypothetically, Hawaii surprises us all, and beats Georgia, then, and only then -- in that unlikely, hypothetical event, which I do not personally believe will happen, or even come close to happening -- Hawaii should be the AP champion.

Is that clear now? :)

[C. Bassett]

For the record, Hawaii opens the season at Florida next year. They opened at USC in '05. They have a long history of tough schedules. Relevant to this discussion only in that its further evidence that their schedule this year really isn't their fault... they just couldn't get the games they wanted this season.

[Brendan Loy]

Damn. I didn't know that about Florida. Too bad Colt Brennan's a senior. Brennan vs. Tebow would have been a hell of a matchup.

[Brendan Loy]

Oh, and bully for Florida. It's nice to see Urban Meyer & co. man up and schedule someone real. Of course, I have no idea if Hawaii will be good next year, sans Brennan, or whether the Gators expected them to be good when they scheduled the game. But still, it's a lot better than playing teams like Western Carolina and Western Kentucky.

[JT]

I wasn't accussing you of picking Hawaii. I was just throwing that bet out there to see if I could win some easy money. I'm glad you didn't accept. It would be horribly painful for me root for UGA.

However, even if Hawaii wins it doesn't prove that they're the best in the country. Bowls are horrible indicators of how good a team is. UGA may lay an egg because they're pissed about missing the title game. Remember when Cal got crushed after whining incessantly about not getting the BCS bowl over Texas.

People should just relax about the "national champion" debate. Some years there is one team that is obviously better than everyone else. This year there is no true "national champion." LSU may win the BCS championship game but in my mind about 8 teams can equally argue that they are the best team regardless of the outcome.

[Brendan]

even if Hawaii wins it doesn't prove that they're the best in the country

...

Some years there is one team that is obviously better than everyone else. ... [I]n my mind about 8 teams can equally argue that they are the best team regardless of the outcome

Well then, why not give one of the mythical
championships to the one of those 8 teams that didn't lose a game? Again assuming the unlikely event of a Hawaii win over Georgia. I mean, if you can't really pick a "best team" anyway, might as well give some props to the undefeated team, eh? I just don't see the argument against it.

By the way, how about that Randy Edsall staying at UConn? ;)

[JT]

I like Edsall but I wasn't sold on him as the head coach at tech. I'm starting to like the head coach at GA Southern. He's young, has ties to the state, and his teams score points. Hopefully Edsall can keep building at UConn. He was the best defensive coordinator Oleary ever had.

[Brendan Loy]

I hear Karl Dorrell is looking for a job. :P